Summary of Meredith Angwin: Shorting the Grid | Tom Nelson Pod #125

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00:00:00 - 01:00:00

In this YouTube video titled "Meredith Angwin: Shorting the Grid | Tom Nelson Pod #125," Meredith Angwin, the author of the book "Shorting the Grid," discusses her background in physical chemistry and her work in the utilities industry. She explains her involvement with geothermal power plants and the challenges associated with corrosion in the geothermal industry. Angwin also highlights her experience in the nuclear industry and the impact of policy decisions on the operation of the physical grid. She further delves into topics such as grid governance, balancing authorities, base load power, integration of wind energy, power plant industry issues, and the importance of a reliable grid. Angwin emphasizes the need for a diverse energy mix and strategic utilization of wind power to ensure grid stability.

00:00:00 In this section, Meredith Angwin introduces herself as the author of the book "Shorting the Grid" and talks about her background in physical chemistry and her work on corrosion and pollution control problems for utilities. She also mentions her involvement with the consumer liaison group of ISO New England and her realization that she didn't fully understand how the grid is arranged. This led her to write a book to explain the complexities of the grid, including her work on controlling nitrogen oxides in power plants. She briefly touches on her experience in geothermal and combustion chemistry.
00:05:00 In this section, the speaker discusses their experience with geothermal power plants and the challenges associated with corrosion in the geothermal industry. They mention the geothermal power plants in California and their visits to different geothermal sites. The speaker also highlights the problem of corrosion in geothermal waters due to their high salinity, which can cause issues with equipment. Interestingly, they draw a parallel between the shorthand "3x" used in geothermal and nuclear industries, both indicating concentration and corrosion problems. The speaker then talks about their involvement with the nuclear industry and their work on practical and theoretical issues related to corrosion. They mention the formation of their own company and the personal growth they experienced through managing projects and payroll. The section concludes with a mention of a course on management books and a reference to the film "No Highway in the Sky," which they relate to their discussions on project management and the importance of having all the necessary information.
00:10:00 In this section, the speaker discusses their background and how they became involved in writing about the grid. They mention their experience working in the utilities industry and the challenges faced by the industry during that time. Moving to Vermont, they began writing about the grid and eventually joined the consumer liaison group, which was not well-known or accessible to outsiders. They briefly mention Vermont Yankee, a nuclear power plant in Vermont, which was closed down for political reasons. They then outline their presentation, which includes topics such as the definition of a strong grid, the distinction between the physical and policy grid, the role of regional transmission organizations, and the impact of auctions on the grid.
00:15:00 In this section, Meredith Angwin discusses what constitutes a strong grid. She believes that a strong grid should provide reliable and affordable electricity while minimizing pollution and ecosystem disruption. However, she acknowledges that there are some who believe electricity should be expensive in order to encourage conservation, without considering the impact on those who can't afford higher prices. Angwin also highlights the distinction between the physical grid and the policy grid. The physical grid refers to the infrastructure, such as transmission lines, substations, and power plants, that enables electricity to reach consumers. On the other hand, the policy grid pertains to how the physical grid is financed and the objectives set by regulatory policies. Angwin stresses the importance of understanding these two grids separately, as they often get confused. She mentions Vermont Yankee, a now-closed power plant, as an example of how policy decisions can impact the operation of the physical grid.
00:20:00 In this section, Meredith Angwin discusses the concept of selling into a power pool rather than a contract with a utility. She explains that in 2013, anti-nuclear activists claimed that Vermont was not using the Vermont Yankee power at all. However, Angwin points out that changing the contract does not change the wires, meaning that the power was still being used by Vermonters. She also highlights the confusion around the different perspectives of the physical grid and the "good grid" consisting of renewable energy sources and batteries. Angwin mentions the challenges of turning research into deployment and the need for permission and someone ready to build the infrastructure. She then briefly introduces the concept of regional transmission organizations (RTOs) and provides a map showing the areas where electricity is pooled.
00:25:00 In this section, Meredith Angwin discusses the different types of grid governance, focusing on vertically integrated areas and areas with regional transmission operators (RTOs). In vertically integrated areas, the utility is responsible for reliability and owns power plants and distribution systems, while transmission systems are regulated by the federal government. The utility receives a rate of return set by regulators, with the state Public Utility Commission being its major regulator. If customers face frequent outages, the state Public Utility Commission will take action. On the other hand, in RTO areas, nobody is explicitly responsible for reliability. Merchant generators supply power to distribution utilities through auctions run by the RTO. Regulation becomes multi-level and resource adequacy, or having enough power plants to meet demand, is the responsibility of the states. However, states may not build new power plants if they do not anticipate making sufficient profits from the auctions. Angwin also touches on Enron's involvement in gaming the system and the challenges faced by balancing authorities in maintaining a balance between electricity demand and supply.
00:30:00 In this section, the speaker discusses the role of balancing authorities in tracking various aspects of the grid, such as LNG tankers, gas pipelines, and transmission lines, to manage power generation and consumption. They highlight the importance of accurately forecasting energy demand and ensuring that power plants are ready to meet that demand. The speaker presents a chart showing the electricity demand on a typical day in April, indicating the need for a consistent supply of base load electricity throughout the day. They also briefly explain the difference between an ISO (Independent System Operator) and an RTO (Regional Transmission Organization). The speaker concludes by showing slides about New York power to support their point that the demand for electricity is continuous and requires a reliable base load supply.
00:35:00 In this section, the speaker discusses the importance of base load power and its significance in meeting the demands of New York City and the surrounding areas. They explain that base load power accounts for a majority of the power supply, even during peak demand periods. The speaker presents graphs and data showing the base load percentage in different regions, emphasizing that base load power is vital for the stability of the grid. They also touch on the auctions run by the RTO (Regional Transmission Organization), which include energy, capacity, and ancillary services, and explain the concept of economic dispatch.
00:40:00 In this section, the speaker discusses the challenges of integrating wind energy into the grid. Wind energy is usually located on a ridge separate from the town, requiring a transmission line to deliver the power. However, this line may already be congested with more reliable power, resulting in curtailment of wind energy. The speaker also highlights the limitations of economic dispatch, where the cheapest power is dispatched first, as it may not always be the most practical solution. Data from ISO New England shows a decline in the energy market but an increase in transmission payments, indicating the growing importance of capacity payments and the need for new transmission lines. The speaker briefly explains how energy auctions work, with the highest price plant setting the price for all plants. The speaker also mentions the controversy surrounding the need for payment clearance in the energy market.
00:45:00 In this section, the speaker discusses the issues in the power plant industry that led to rolling blackouts in California and the recent Texas power crisis. They highlight how power plant owners prioritize high clearing prices and don't take responsibility for grid reliability. The rolling blackouts in California didn't affect the merchant generator orders, unlike the utilities who faced fines for their actions. In the Texas crisis, the speaker explains that wind power initially accounted for a significant portion of electricity generation, but as the cold weather hit, wind output dropped. Natural gas became the backup fuel, but there wasn't enough of it due to weather-related problems with the natural gas systems and the impact of rolling blackouts. The speaker concludes that there are many lessons to be learned from these incidents, and the blame game between renewables and natural gas was contentious.
00:50:00 In this section, the speaker discusses the challenges with relying on renewables for grid stability, particularly when backed up by natural gas delivered just-in-time through pipelines. Interruptions in natural gas delivery can cause grid problems, and relying on neighboring grids for backup power may not always be feasible during weather conditions that affect multiple areas. The speaker also highlights the importance of fuel stored on-site for grid reliability, as seen during a cold snap in New England where power plants without extra funding had limited access to oil. To overcome these challenges, the speaker suggests a grid with base load nuclear power, fuel stored on-site, and a mix of nuclear, solar, gas, and battery power for different demand levels.
00:55:00 In this section, Meredith Angwin discusses the importance of having a reliable grid and the misconception that personal sacrifices are the only solution to energy issues. She emphasizes that being a citizen means supporting a reliable grid, as a prolonged power outage could have a significant death toll. Angwin also highlights the potential dangers of relying heavily on wind power, pointing out that wind is intermittent and often blows at night, while solar is available when demand is highest. Adding a lot of wind power to the grid can actually make it worse, as it forces reliable generators offline and requires backup from natural gas. She concludes by stating her mixed feelings about wind power, stating that she is not against it if it is used strategically during high demand times.

01:00:00 - 01:10:00

In this YouTube video, Meredith Angwin discusses several issues related to the power industry and renewable energy. She touches on the phenomenon of wind turbines not spinning even in windy conditions, attributing it to curtailment or operator decisions. She also highlights the potential negative effects of keeping wind turbines still for too long. Angwin explores the incentives within the power industry, indicating that increased spending can lead to higher profits. She acknowledges oversight bodies that regulate utilities' spending and briefly mentions reliability must run contracts. Angwin expresses skepticism toward claims of companies like Apple powering their data centers with 100% renewable energy, emphasizing that they are still connected to the grid. The concept of renewable energy credits is also discussed, with the speaker suggesting that compliance in the market is more expensive than the voluntary market. Angwin expresses a fondness for the physical aspects of the grid and mentions the closed-off nature of the RTO system. Overall, the speaker provides insights into various aspects of the power industry and renewable energy.

01:00:00 In this section, Meredith Angwin discusses the issue of wind turbines not spinning even when there is wind. She suggests that it could be due to curtailment or the operator deciding not to use the power at that moment. She also mentions that wind turbines should not be kept still for too long as it can have negative effects on the blades. Angwin then goes on to talk about the incentives in the power industry, where power generators and people in the industry may make more money if they spend more money. She explains how vertically integrated utilities are given a rate of return and a percentage profit based on what they spend. Despite some complaints about the gold-plated grid, Angwin mentions that there are oversight bodies that try to regulate the utilities' spending. She also briefly mentions the concept of reliability must run contracts in response to Legacy power plants going offline. In response to Apple's claim of powering their data centers with 100% renewable energy, Angwin expresses skepticism and states that they are still connected to the grid.
01:05:00 In this section, the speaker discusses the concept of renewable energy credits, which are bought and sold by utilities to meet their required percentage of renewables on their system. They argue that it is essentially a way for companies to virtue signal by purchasing these credits, and that compliance in the market is more expensive than the voluntary market. The speaker also expresses their enjoyment of looking at the physical grid, such as transmission lines and substations. They mention that while the public has a voice in the traditional public utility system, the RTO (Regional Transmission Organization) system is much more closed-off. When asked about vertical integration versus the RTO system, they suggest that vertical integration could be better if certain reforms were made, such as ensuring that transmission lines are not owned by private companies that can monopolize access to them.
01:10:00 In this section, the speaker expresses gratitude and informs the audience that they can find more resources, including podcasts, on the website meredithanguin.com. The speaker thanks the audience and concludes the conversation.