Summary of The Truth About Incels | Ash Sarkar meets William Costello

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00:00:00 - 01:00:00

In this YouTube video titled "The Truth About Incels | Ash Sarkar meets William Costello," Ash Sarkar and her guest, William Costello, discuss the complex issue of incels and shift the narrative from one of threat and misogyny to empathy and understanding. Costello, a PhD student and expert on the psychology of incels, shares his research revealing that 30% of his sample met the diagnostic criteria for autism and discusses the bidirectional relationship between poor mental well-being and incel ideology. They also touch on the importance of self-development for men and the role of curiosity and empathy in understanding this issue. Additionally, they explore the evolving nature of societal values, particularly regarding physical attractiveness and body image, and the impact of rap music on these perceptions. Costello emphasizes the importance of distinguishing between incels as people who cannot form relationships and those who identify with the label and engage in ideological behavior. They also discuss the connection between incels and violence, the significance of physical attractiveness in the context of incel culture, and the role of self-development and romantic success for men. The conversation revolves around the importance of mutual flourishing and helping each other grow in relationships, rather than a transactional exchange, and the need to reduce societal pressures and encourage women to be more agentic in seeking relationships.

00:00:00 In this section of the YouTube video titled "The Truth About Incels | Ash Sarkar meets William Costello," Ash Sarkar expresses her desire to shift the narrative around incels from one of threat and misogyny to one of empathy and understanding. She acknowledges her past reductive views on the subject and introduces her guest, William Costello, a PhD student at the University of Texas at Austin and an expert on the psychology of incels. Costello's research reveals that 30% of his sample of incels met the diagnostic criteria for autism, and he discusses the bidirectional relationship between poor mental well-being and incel ideology. The conversation also touches on the importance of self-development for men and the role of curiosity and empathy in understanding this complex issue. Additionally, Sarkar and Costello discuss the evolving nature of rap music and its impact on societal values, particularly regarding physical attractiveness and body image.
00:05:00 In this section of the YouTube video titled "The Truth About Incels | Ash Sarkar meets William Costello," the conversation shifts to the topic of human evolution and the role of physical attractiveness in mate selection. William Costello argues that the peacock is an example of a species where the female selects the most exuberant male, while in humans, it's the opposite. He suggests that women's focus on physical attractiveness may be changing as they earn their own resources and no longer rely on men for provision. Costello also discusses the psychological dismantling of celebrities, such as Drake and Kendrick Lamar, in rap culture and how it relates to their experiences of being parented. Costello, who comes from an evolutionary psychology background, expresses his interest in studying the psychology of incels, a group of modern young men who feel excluded from sexual and romantic relationships, and the effects it has on their attitudes towards others.
00:10:00 In this section of the YouTube video titled "The Truth About Incels | Ash Sarkar meets William Costello," researcher William Costello discusses his interest in studying incels, a group of people who identify as unable to form sexual and romantic relationships. He explains that there was a lack of research on the topic despite media attention and government concern. Costello's study was one of the few to focus on primary responses from incels, and it has proven to be a fruitful research topic. Costello emphasizes the importance of distinguishing between incels as people who cannot form relationships and those who identify with the label and engage in ideological behavior. He challenges the common perception of incels as predominantly white, right-wing men, stating that there are disproportionately people of color in the community and their politics are more complex than often portrayed. Costello also acknowledges the presence of racism in the incel community but argues that it is different from that of white supremacist groups. The research primarily focuses on individuals who identify as incels and participate in online incel communities. Costello shares that unwanted celibacy, which is a strong predictor of misogyny, is common among both incels and non-incels. Demographically, incels are more likely to be people of color, have low education and employment, and score poorly on mental health measures.
00:15:00 In this section of the YouTube video "The Truth About Incels | Ash Sarkar meets William Costello," the speakers discuss the mindset and characteristics of incels, a subculture of primarily young men who feel they are unable to form romantic relationships. Incels adhere to the philosophy of the "black pill," which describes a bleak reality of no chance for romantic success and encourages acceptance of this fact. They also experience high levels of suicidality, with one in ten reporting suicidal thoughts daily, compared to 4% of typical young men. The speakers argue that incels should be viewed as a crisis of suicide rather than violence, as they are not organized or mobilized for political violence like other terrorist groups. Instead, they suggest historical institutions like monasteries or Vikings as potential solutions for channeling the energy and frustration of incels into productive outlets.
00:20:00 In this section of the YouTube video titled "The Truth About Incels | Ash Sarkar meets William Costello," the discussion revolves around the potential connection between incels and violence. The speaker explains that while incels as a group are not an organized terrorist organization, individuals who fit the profile of a sexless, purposeless young man are prime candidates for violence. The speaker references research suggesting that acquiring mates is a significant motivating factor for men to engage in violence, including terrorist groups. However, the number of people killed in acts of violence by incels is relatively low, with only about 59 people killed in total, and many of those deaths can be attributed to one individual, Alec Manasian. The speaker proposes that the internet may be acting as a sedative for young men, allowing them to channel their aggression and misogyny into online forums rather than resorting to violence. The speaker also reflects on her own experience as a public figure and the hateful, sexualized and racialized comments she receives from incels. The most extreme voices within the incel community are amplified, and the speaker touches on the failure of cross-sex communication and understanding among incels, leading to resentment and hatred towards women.
00:25:00 In this section of the YouTube video titled "The Truth About Incels | Ash Sarkar meets William Costello," William Costello discusses the existence of female incels and the evolution of his thinking on the topic. He initially believed that there was no such thing as a female incel, as most women could find sex or relationships if they wanted. However, after further reflection and consideration of female sexual psychology, he now believes that there can be female incels. He argues that some women would prefer to stay single rather than settle for someone they don't want, and that the frustrated single female doesn't need a subculture community like incels because the idea of "where are all the good men gone" is a mainstream view. Costello also discusses the differences between what incels believe women want and what women actually want, and how incels overestimate the importance of physical attractiveness and financial resources while underestimating the importance of kindness, intelligence, and humor.
00:30:00 In this section of the YouTube video titled "The Truth About Incels | Ash Sarkar meets William Costello," they discuss the importance of physical attractiveness in the context of incel culture and the role of the dating marketplace in shaping perceptions of value. The speaker argues that incels' extreme distrust of women and fixation on looks stems from societal underestimation of physical attractiveness, but also acknowledges that looks are not the only factor in attraction. He criticizes the use of dating apps, which prioritize static information and can lead to extreme atomization and disengagement from society. The speaker also touches upon the challenges faced by individuals with autism in navigating the complexities of dating in a modern world where clear-cut rules have disappeared.
00:35:00 In this section of the YouTube video titled "The Truth About Incels | Ash Sarkar meets William Costello," the discussion revolves around the connection between pickup artist forums and incel communities. The speaker explains that some young men, including those with autism, may turn to pickup artist tactics to improve their dating lives but find failure, leading them to identify as incels. The speaker also reflects on the evolution of dating in modern society and the pressure on individuals to find romantic connections, particularly for men. They suggest that the anxiety and frustration experienced by some men, including those on the autism spectrum, can lead to the conclusion that they are incels and give up on trying. The speaker also touches upon the complexities of opposite-sex friendships and the role of desire and eroticism in such relationships.
00:40:00 In this section of the YouTube video titled "The Truth About Incels | Ash Sarkar meets William Costello," the conversation turns to the topic of self-development and romantic success for men, which some may associate with misogyny. The speaker acknowledges that young men are often driven to improve themselves in order to attract partners, but expresses concern about the potential for this to slip into toxic territory. She references the use of dating apps as an example of a seemingly benign aspect of the "mating market," where people are valued based on certain traits and compete for romantic success. The speaker argues that we need to provide young men with alternative, healthy visions of romantic success and mating goals, contrasting the short-term, fast-paced approach often portrayed in popular culture with the idea of a flourishing, long-term relationship and family life.
00:45:00 In this section of the YouTube video titled "The Truth About Incels | Ash Sarkar meets William Costello," they discuss the significance of a partner's sexual history in relationships. William Costello shares research indicating that both men and women prefer a partner with some sexual experience, but not excessively. He explains that people's concerns about a partner's sexual history are influenced by various factors, including mate guarding and commitment. Costello argues that dismissing a partner's sexual history as irrelevant to decision-making is unrealistic, as it matters in terms of timing and the nature of the sexual history. He emphasizes the importance of commitment, seriousness, and lack of disposability in relationships, and the need for negotiations between partners' needs. Costello also criticizes the transactional nature of relationships portrayed on the internet and advocates for educating men on how to provide value in relationships rather than reducing it to a currency or transaction.
00:50:00 In this section of the YouTube video titled "The Truth About Incels | Ash Sarkar meets William Costello," William Costello discusses his perspective on relationships, moving away from transactional models, and the use of dating apps. He believes that relationships should be about mutual flourishing and helping each other grow, rather than a currency-based exchange. Costello also acknowledges the importance of developing social connections and community to find relationships, but is reluctant to let go of dating apps entirely. He shares his personal experience of feeling alienated while using apps and suggests that men could benefit from coaching on creating better app profiles. Costello expresses his belief that dating can be less marketized and that the incentive structure of apps could be improved to create a more positive experience.
00:55:00 In this section of the YouTube video titled "The Truth About Incels | Ash Sarkar meets William Costello," they discuss the gender dynamics of dating and the societal pressures that come with it. The speaker shares an experience of being coached by a male friend on how to approach a man after a breakup, which led to both success and failure. They also touch upon the evolutionary perspective of men overperceiving sexual interest and the societal pressure on women to be pursued rather than pursuing relationships. The speaker suggests that encouraging women to be more agentic in seeking relationships could reduce discomfort and societal issues like regret and fear. However, they also acknowledge the fear of rape and murder as a significant concern for women, which influences their behavior. The speaker questions whether these behaviors are biologically encoded or culturally conditioned and acknowledges the complexity of separating the two. They also touch upon the concept of toxic femininity and the contradictory messages women receive about gender performance.

01:00:00 - 01:40:00

In the YouTube video "The Truth About Incels | Ash Sarkar meets William Costello," the speakers explore various aspects of sexuality, fear, and relationships. They discuss the psychological differences between men and women, focusing on the fear of sexual violence and its impact on women's self-actualization. The speakers argue that women face a greater risk of sexual violence, leading to a heightened fear and cultural training. However, they also acknowledge the potential harm of excessive fear and the need to strike a balance. The speakers also delve into the conflicting messages women receive regarding fear and self-actualization, as well as the social stigma surrounding perpetrators of sexual violence and the difficulty in prosecuting such crimes. They discuss the varying mate preferences and experiences of different sexual orientations, specifically focusing on the concept of incels within the gay community. The speakers also explore the connection between perceived low mate value and misogyny, and the significant changes in sexual and romantic choices over the past few generations and their impact on fertility rates. Throughout the conversation, the speakers touch upon the importance of normalizing singlehood, promoting a healthier attitude towards single life, and valuing emotional intelligence and social adeptness in attracting partners. They also suggest potential solutions to help women better balance their careers and families and create conditions for women who want to have kids without sacrificing their career goals.

01:00:00 In this section of the YouTube video titled "The Truth About Incels | Ash Sarkar meets William Costello," the speakers discuss the psychological differences between men and women, focusing on the fear of sexual violence. They argue that these differences are a result of both biological and social factors. Biologically, women face a greater risk of sexual violence, making it more costly and threatening to them. Psychologically, this results in women fearing sexual violence more than men, with this difference being one of the largest in all of psychology. Socially, women are raised with a heightened awareness of the risk of sexual violence due to the higher incidence of sexual violence against women. This cultural training is not arbitrary but rather a response to the differentiated risks between men and women. However, the speakers also acknowledge that an excessive fear of sexual violence can be problematic and may lead to unfair generalizations about men.
01:05:00 In this section of the YouTube video titled "The Truth About Incels | Ash Sarkar meets William Costello," the speakers discuss the conflicting messages women receive regarding fear and self-actualization. Katherine Angel's book, "Tomorrow Sex Will Be Good Again," is mentioned, which explores the modern condition of heterosexual women being conditioned with two conflicting messages: being self-actualized and knowing their sexuality while also living in fear of rape and murder. The speakers argue that this idea of women needing to be fearful to be responsible is culturally shaped and can be harmful, leading to an excessive alarmism about women's fear. They also discuss the need to strike a balance and acknowledge the threat but not encourage young women to live in fear. The speakers also touch upon the idea of imagining a society where rape is taken seriously and the cultural loading of rape is different. They also mention the example of Bangladesh after the war of independence in 1971, where rape was used as a weapon of war and the traditional response was that the women were soiled.
01:10:00 In this section of the YouTube video titled "The Truth About Incels | Ash Sarkar meets William Costello," researchers discuss the social stigma surrounding perpetrators of sexual violence and the difficulty in prosecuting such crimes. One researcher shares her experience with a falsely accused man, noting that even the mere accusation can have devastating social consequences. They also touch upon the blurred lines between what is criminal and what is just sexual misconduct, using the Aziz Ansari case as an example. The conversation then shifts to the LGBT community, where they explore how evolved psychology manifests in LGBT relationships and the different cultural scripts for making sense of sexlessness within the queer community. They suggest that education interventions can help bridge the gap between men's and women's perceptions of sexual harassment and violence.
01:15:00 In this section of the YouTube video titled "The Truth About Incels | Ash Sarkar meets William Costello," the speakers discuss the varying mate preferences and experiences of different sexual orientations, specifically focusing on the concept of incels within the gay community. The speakers note that older gay men who have been frozen out of the mating market prioritizing youth and physical attractiveness have identified as incels. They also mention the prominence of promiscuity and fleeting connections in the gay dating scene, which can be particularly age-prohibitive and alienating for those seeking long-term relationships. The speakers acknowledge the societal acceptance of promiscuity within the gay community, which may stem from historical exclusion from marriage and commitment. They also touch upon the complex emotional responses to sexlessness within the LGBTQ+ community, including resentment and a curse-like feeling towards one's own desires.
01:20:00 In this section of the YouTube video titled "The Truth About Incels | Ash Sarkar meets William Costello," the discussion revolves around the connection between perceived low mate value and misogyny. Costello argues that misogyny can manifest both within relationships and outside of them, with the latter being the case for incels. He describes how some men may try to lower their partners' self-esteem and mate value to prevent them from leaving, which is known as "mate retention behavior." This behavior can lead to a cycle of rejection, resentment, and further lowering of mate value. The conversation also touches upon the correlation between higher education and income for women and the risk of intimate partner violence. Overall, the speakers explore the complex relationship between misogyny, mental health, and mate value.
01:25:00 In this section of the YouTube video titled "The Truth About Incels | Ash Sarkar meets William Costello," the speakers discuss the significant changes in sexual and romantic choices over the past few generations and the impact on fertility rates. The speaker, William Costello, expresses concern over the increasing trend of women choosing to remain childless, citing societal and economic factors. He mentions how women have historically had little choice but to marry and have children due to social norms and economic necessity. However, with the rise of women's economic independence and the prioritization of careers, many women are finding it challenging to balance both. Costello argues that this shift has led to an unwanted childlessness crisis, with 50% of women over 30 who don't have children never going on to have one. He suggests potential solutions, such as subsidizing egg freezing and providing universal basic income and lifelong adult education, to help women better balance their careers and families. The speakers also touch upon the societal stigma surrounding concerns about fertility and unwanted childlessness, which Costello believes is unjustified.
01:30:00 In this section of the YouTube video titled "The Truth About Incels | Ash Sarkar meets William Costello," the conversation revolves around women's desires and the challenges of having children in the current economic climate. Ash Sarkar expresses her concern about lowering unwanted childlessness by creating conditions for women who want to have kids without sacrificing their career goals. She also discusses the importance of normalizing egg freezing and making it accessible to young women. The conversation then shifts to the topic of what makes a man attractive, historically and presently. Sarkar explains that women have traditionally selected men based on their ability to provide resources for themselves and their offspring. However, she acknowledges that this preference has evolved, and women now seek partners who can share domestic responsibilities. Sarkar wishes for a societal shift towards valuing stay-at-home dads as high-status figures.
01:35:00 In this section of the YouTube video titled "The Truth About Incels | Ash Sarkar meets William Costello," the speakers discuss the changing dynamics of gender roles and mate preferences. Historically, women relied on men for protection and resources, but this trend is shifting as women prioritize physical attractiveness more in their mate choices. This prioritization of physical attractiveness has led to an increase in depression, anxiety, infidelity, and other issues for both sexes. The speakers suggest that this rapidly changing norm may not be as well-received as some might think, and that men's motivation to engage in traditionally feminine roles, such as staying at home, could be increased if it becomes high-status in women's mate preferences. The speakers also touch on the importance of social adeptness and emotional intelligence in attracting partners. One viewer's dilemma, being an incel in his mid-30s who has never had vaginal sex, is discussed, with the speakers offering their advice.
01:40:00 In this section of the YouTube video titled "The Truth About Incels | Ash Sarkar meets William Costello," William Costello discusses the perspective of individuals who feel they are missing out on the "full normal human experience" by being single. He mentions research by Bella Deo, who champions the idea of singles flourishing, and suggests destigmatizing singlehood to help those who feel they are perceived as lesser due to their relationship status. Costello also touches upon the mindset of incels, who view their incel status as a discomfort and a potential relapse, and emphasizes the importance of promoting a healthier attitude towards single life.