Summary of Andy West: The Climate Change Doomsday Cult | Tom Nelson Pod #135

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00:00:00 - 01:00:00

Andy West, author of "The Grip of Culture: The Social Psychology of Climate Change Catastrophism," focuses on the social psychology of climate change rather than the physical aspects or scientific positions. He argues that climate change narratives have characteristics of cultural entities, like religions or ideologies, including a consensus among believers and intentionally wrong narratives to maintain group cohesion. West illustrates this through examples from Christianity, communism, and climate catastrophism. He emphasizes the need to understand the social psychology behind climate change culture in order to address it effectively. The conversation also covers topics such as the rejection of nuclear energy as a solution, the correlation between religiosity and attitudes towards climate change, the similarities between climate catastrophism and religion, and the difficulty of challenging cultural narratives. Ultimately, West suggests that cultures can be changed through shame, presenting real data, and challenging the narrative. He also contemplates the potential consequences of achieving net-zero emissions and the role of cultural beliefs in shaping responses to climate change. The speaker urges individuals to critically evaluate cultural narratives and highlights the influence of group benefits and skepticism on climate change beliefs.

00:00:00 In this section, Andy West explains that his book, "The Grip of Culture: The Social Psychology of Climate Change Catastrophism," focuses on the social psychology of climate change rather than the physical aspects or the scientific positions. He discusses how cultures and religions have deep evolutionary roots and serve as a mechanism to keep groups together. West emphasizes that cultural entities, like religions or ideologies, have specific characteristics such as a consensus among believers and a main narrative that is intentionally wrong to maintain group cohesion. He gives examples from Christianity, communism, and climate catastrophism to illustrate this point. Ultimately, West argues that understanding the social psychology behind climate change culture is crucial in order to address the phenomenon effectively.
00:05:00 In this section, Andy West discusses the characteristics of the climate change narrative that Professor Crusoe, who has been marooned for 35 years, would instantly recognize as cultural rather than scientific. Some of these characteristics include the existence of a consensus, the adoration of authority figures, the restriction of information, the demonization of skeptics, and the demonization of anyone who questions the narrative. West explains that the current social sciences are biased by the belief that climate change is an output of hard science, which prevents them from investigating it as a cultural phenomenon. He also notes that most public skepticism towards climate change is instinctive rather than rational, as people have correctly recognized that it is driven by a cultural agenda. West shares his personal experience of initially not having a strong opinion on climate change until watching "An Inconvenient Truth," which he found to be filled with cultural elements rather than scientific evidence.
00:10:00 In this section, Andy West discusses his interest in the psychology behind climate change beliefs rather than the science itself. He notes that the psychology of the public is completely independent of what is happening with the actual climate and follows characteristics similar to religion or ideology. He then gives an example from history, the Kosa nation in South Africa, where a prophet convinced the people to slaughter their cattle to prevent an apocalypse but instead led to the collapse of the nation. This example highlights the strong millennarian wing in climate change beliefs, with Greta Thunberg being compared to a 16-year-old girl prophet.
00:15:00 In this section, the speaker discusses how the "climate change doomsday cult" rejects nuclear energy as a solution to combat climate change because their true agenda is the complete renewal of society. The speaker points out that even countries like Germany are turning off their nuclear power stations, despite facing energy supply issues and high costs. The cult prefers wind and solar energy, even though these sources are not scalable solutions and can destabilize power grids. The speaker argues that the cult and the culture as a whole promote solutions that keep the culture going, rather than implementing solutions that may be more effective but could harm the culture. The speaker also compares wind turbines to cathedrals, suggesting that they have become symbols of environmentalism rather than practical power stations. The conversation touches upon the correlation between national religiosity and the adoption of renewable energy, highlighting the influence of climate catastrophism and religion on the cult's agenda.
00:20:00 In this section, the speaker discusses the correlation between religiosity in a country and its response to the question of whether there will be a climate catastrophe. Unconstrained questions about climate change tend to correlate strongly with religion, with religious countries endorsing climate change as a significant threat. However, when the questions are reality-constrained, religious countries tend to prioritize their religious values over climate change, resulting in low endorsement of climate change action. On the other hand, secular countries may have lower endorsement of climate change as a threat, but they give it higher priority due to their belief in science. Overall, this demonstrates a cultural pattern where religion plays a role in shaping the response to climate change.
00:25:00 In this section, the speaker discusses the similarities between climate catastrophism and religion, noting that patterns observed in both can be understood through the lens of culture. They highlight the lack of recognition of these patterns by academia and point out that while efforts have been made to find social predictors of climate change beliefs, the strongest predictor is actually national religiosity. The speaker expresses skepticism about whether those within the climate cult culture will be open to reading their book and learning from it, as it may be dismissed as denial. They also discuss the difficulty of accessing and disseminating information in academic and polling industries due to the influence of cultural biases and smears.
00:30:00 In this section, Andy West discusses the challenges of trying to bring sanity back to the world outside of the climate cult. He explains that cultures are difficult to stop because they are more powerful than simple conspiracies and can subconsciously link billions of people. However, he suggests that cultures can be changed through shame, referencing how the belief in eugenics was ultimately shamed to death after the horrors of the Nazi concentration camps were revealed. He also mentions that cultures yield to reality to some extent, so presenting real data and challenging the culture's narrative can help chip away at its influence.
00:35:00 In this section, the speaker reflects on the potential consequences of achieving net-zero emissions. They suggest that society may collapse if radical measures are taken to achieve this goal, but if a balance is struck that preserves society without fully succumbing to climate change alarmism, it may force the movement to back off. However, the speaker acknowledges that the climate change narrative is powerful and may persist even if it is weakened. They speculate that the complexity of our current society and technology may require making climate action instinctive rather than rational. The speaker also discusses past climate cultures in Peru that worshipped the weather due to the devastating floods caused by El Nino events. These cultures built pyramids and believed that the elite could control the weather, but eventually, people revolted and history repeated itself when new elites emerged and the cycle continued.
00:40:00 In this section, Andy West discusses the idea that cultural narratives surrounding climate change should not be blindly believed. He argues that all cultures are wrong to some extent and cannot solve the issue of climate change. He also mentions that the emotive reactions within our subconscious drive our beliefs about climate change, and these reactions bypass rationality. He emphasizes that most people, including climate activists and politicians, genuinely believe in their cause and are not lying. West suggests that unraveling these deep-seated beliefs is challenging but necessary, and that attributing conspiracy theories or deliberate plans to the climate change movement is misguided.
00:45:00 In this section, Andy West discusses the influence of culture on people's rationality and draws a comparison to Joseph Goebbels and his belief in Hitler. He then moves on to talk about the similarities between the response to COVID-19 and climate change, arguing that the initial instinct for social distancing during the pandemic was not purely cultural but also rooted in our animal instincts. He believes that the culture and government responses to the pandemic were influenced by the population's fear and desire for more restrictions. Additionally, he highlights how cultures can use opportunistic events like COVID-19 to advance their own agendas, such as pushing for stricter climate change measures. West suggests that there are valuable lessons to learn about how science can go wrong in both the COVID-19 and climate change domains, but emphasizes that the initial response to the pandemic was driven by our animal instinct for social distancing.
00:50:00 In this section, the speaker discusses how most adherents of a culture, including religious ones like Christianity, have not actually read the core texts on which the culture is based. The same applies to the climate change narrative, where many individuals who support the narrative have no understanding of the core scientific principles or the actual evidence. Instead, they rely on emotional appeals and statements of belief to signal their membership in the climate change club. This groupthink and the need for an in-group creates an out-group, where anyone who questions or disagrees with the narrative is automatically labeled as part of the out-group. Overall, the speaker suggests that the climate change narrative functions more like a cultural phenomenon than a rational debate based on evidence.
00:55:00 In this section, Andy West discusses the concept of group benefits and how they relate to climate change beliefs. He explains that in order to access the benefits of being part of a certain group, individuals must align themselves with the group's beliefs, even if those beliefs are irrational. West argues that this mindset creates a sense of exclusivity and reinforces the idea of being "in the club." He also mentions the potential for schisms within the group, as differing beliefs, such as support for nuclear energy, can lead to divisions. Additionally, he touches on the idea of innate skepticism and how it affects people's beliefs and attitudes towards climate change. West suggests that skepticism can arise simply from an instinctive distrust of any cultural narrative, rather than from believing in an alternative viewpoint. He compares this skepticism to the ability to detect lies, highlighting the various signals and cues that people use to determine if someone is being dishonest.

01:00:00 - 01:05:00

Andy West discusses the detection of group-level deception and the cultural phenomenon surrounding climate change skepticism in this section of the Tom Nelson Podcast. He explains that signals used to detect individual lying can also be applied to detecting group deception, such as rigid consensus, unquestionability, and the inability to ask relevant questions. However, he acknowledges that this approach can sometimes misfire, as scientific consensus may mistakenly appear as a cultural consensus. West highlights the importance of understanding the cultural aspects behind climate change beliefs and recognizes the influence of an individual's values on their skepticism. He suggests bringing nuance to the understanding of skepticism, as many people view it as purely rational, which can lead to confusion.